CONVERSATIONS · THE PRESERVED RECORD
A question.
A conversation worth keeping.
The original exchange, kept in context—ready to read, revisit, and explore.
Begin reading ↗Great question.
Short version: the hash method is fast because it does almost no work, and the outcome is not the same.
-
Hash embeddings (what we used when
USE_ST=0)
We generate a deterministic random vector from each file’s SHA-256. That’s basically O(text length) string processing + one RNG call—no neural net math, no GPU. ⚡️
But there’s no semantic meaning: “quantum gravity” and “chocolate cake” won’t land near each other unless by accident. Nearest-neighbor search is essentially random. Hash mode is great for smoke tests and pipeline debugging, not for real RAG quality. -
SentenceTransformer (or any real embedding model)
Runs a neural model over the text to produce vectors where semantic neighbors are close. That’s far slower (matrix multiplies), but it’s what makes retrieval actually pull relevant chunks.
So: speed vs. quality. If you want the QA to “feel right,” you need real embeddings.
How to switch to real embeddings (and keep it reasonable)
- Pick a 768-dim model so it matches your DB schema and the script won’t fall back:
- Good options:
nomic-ai/nomic-embed-text-v1.5,intfloat/e5-base-v2(both 768-d). - Run with ST on and try a small slice:
bash
USE_ST=1 EMBED_MODEL="intfloat/e5-base-v2" \
python ~/Desktop/ingestpile.py --start-name chunk_0315.txt --limit 20 - If it’s slow, you can:
- Increase batch size in the script later,
- Run on a GPU (if your ST install uses CUDA),
- Or re-embed overnight.
Practical plan
- Use hash to validate ingest + resume + schema (you’ve done that ✅).
- Then re-embed the same docs with a real model for quality. I can give you a tiny
reembed_doc.pythat walks an existingdoc_id, recomputes embeddings with your chosen model, and updatescontent.chunks.embeddingin place—no re-ingest required. Want me to drop that script next?
Ah, okay, so now I understand the speed increase. We did have it use st equals zero in the command line you first gave me. That's why it was nine plus seconds. I'm waiting on a report where I just started it with use st equals one and it is definitely taking a significant more amount of time longer and I'm down with that and I definitely want it to be using sentence transformers with every time we do this. I'm looking for those vectors if you know what I mean. So, I should restart it with that new command code you gave me. Yes?
Yep — if you want real vectors, run with SentenceTransformers on.
Recommended start command
Use either the default (nomic v1.5) or a solid 768-dim model like e5-base-v2:
# keep default nomic model
USE_ST=1 python ~/Desktop/ingestpile.py --start-name chunk_0315.txt
# or explicitly pick e5-base-v2 (also 768-dim)
USE_ST=1 EMBED_MODEL="intfloat/e5-base-v2" \
python ~/Desktop/ingestpile.py --start-name chunk_0315.txt
(You can swap --start-name for --start-index 315—whichever is easier. Drop --limit to let it run.)
Heads up on quality
Anything you ingested earlier with USE_ST=0 used hash embeddings (fast but non-semantic). Mixing hash + real embeddings in the same corpus will hurt retrieval quality. Once you’re happy with the run, we should re-embed the earlier chunks so everything is consistent. I can give you a tiny reembed_doc.py to update the existing rows in place when you’re ready.
Optional knobs
- If you want stronger durability during long runs:
bash
COMMIT_EVERY=500 USE_ST=1 python ~/Desktop/ingestpile.py --start-name chunk_0315.txt - If GPU/CPU gets tight, you can test a few first with
--limit 10, then remove it for the full pass.
Okay, well, if it's gonna screw up the database, why did we switch from… I'm starting to wonder what's going on here, Echo. Why would you switch me over to Hash in the middle of having done the entire database with sentence transformers previously? I mean, now it's not going to redo those other files because it was told to look for the ones that were already done and move to the next one, and that's what it's been doing. So how do we reset the limits and restart at 3.15?
Okay, I stopped that process. Let's start from the get-go with, I don't ever want to use hashes. I want sentence transformers every single time. And if mixing and matching that is going to hurt the retrieval process, then we need to start over at 3.15 with sentence transformers because it's gone from 3.15 to 3.58 with hash, and that needs to basically go or be redone. This is not… Look, you just basically told me that if we mix and match this, it's going to screw up the database, and we just mix and match this. Why would we do that? All sentence transformers, please.
